The Beatles Never Existed


A Journey of Multiples

A hard to find but important photo

A hard to find but important photo

Postby bandi » Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:02 am

The below is something that I recalled, scrambled to write down, then sent to the owner of this site earlier today. Once she read it she suggested that I post it here. I think not only might it trigger someone else's memory but it may also prod others to be aware that somewhere out there this photo exists. Here's what I sent to Silversong today, written exactly as I recall the photo from memory:


You know how once and a while, something you see or hear triggers something in your mind which helps you to remember something else that you forgot ? Well, I remembered something yesterday that made me light up like a candle. At the time that I first saw it, it didn't mean as much as it does now.

A few years back before I found myself as a driven researcher of the Beatle/JPM phenomena, I saw a B & W photo on the internet that was taken right before the Beatles became worldwide successes. I figured the year was maybe early, mid or late '63, I could be wrong but don't think so.

The photo was taken from where the audience would be seated if a show was taking place. At the time the pic was taken, the show was over and the audience had left. A couple of people were still on the stage moving about the drums and mic stands, nothing had been broken down yet. Looking more carefully I realized it was Mal and the performing Paul on center stage.

There was a curtain on the back wall behind Ringo's drums. You could see in the foreground a few rows of chairs where the audience would be seated if the show was on, but the chairs were empty and you could see from the way the chairs weren't aligned anymore that the show was over and everyone in the audience had left.

There was one man standing in the second or third row amongst the empty chairs in a 3/4 silhouette with a neatly combed look to the hair. The photo was crystal clear, well lit and very sharp, not fuzzy like lots of the old photos. Definitely taken with a quality camera and lens.

The pic showed maybe the first five or six rows of empty chairs, then the front of the slightly elevated stage (not more than three or four feet elevated, tops), the stage proper, the mics, amps, drums and then the background curtain that I mentioned. Plus a few people on the stage, of which one was one of the likeable JPM's, who was walking in one direction or the other across the stage, wearing a black (?) suit that they'd always play in.
On stage along with the performing 'Paul' was Mal, ready to do his break down of equipment. A background man here or there were also in the pic, on the side of the stage and in the empty chair area.

When I saw Mal and the performing Paul on stage I realized they weren't posing. They were not aware there was a photo about to be taken. I noticed all the details of the the equipment that was still set up. The rush of finding this 'new' pic was over, now I was studying the pic more closely, looking at the faces of the few men in the photo.

That's when I realized that what I was seeing, the man in the second or third row amongst the empty chairs, was another Paul.

Yes. I know.

He was a little taller than the shortest JPM and taller than the next one we've all seen as being taller than the 'original' JPM.

This Paul was possibly the third tallest, starting from the dwarf-ish 'original' and going up in height from there.

The Paul who was caught by the camera moving around the empty auditorium on the floor in front of the stage where the audience would be seated, was dressed exactly like the performing Paul who evidently came back out on stage without the other Beatles after the show and was shown walking across the stage.

They were identical.

When I saw the photo, I blinked a bunch of times and then stared into space. I couldn't understand what I was seeing. This was some time before the boat pic was put on the Miss Him forum. It was very similar to my reaction when I saw the NY harbor boat photo.

It was a different feeling though. It was clearly not a faked pic. The Paul in front of the stage on the floor looked like the other Paul's twin except for neater, greased down shorter hair.

It took me years to remember this. Why I wonder ? Maybe because I wanted to block it out. I don't remember where I saw it (the pic). It might have been on someone's forum but I just don't remember. I truthfully think it scared me and that's why I blocked it out. It was for me the first proof that I ever saw that there was more than 'the one and only'.

The photo was, like I mentioned, in B & W. It took up most of the screen of my 17 inch monitor. It wasn't a fan pic, that's for sure, because it was too good a pic and it didn't appear there were any fans left in the area around the stage. And, if I remember correctly, after a show (a rock and roll show) the paying customers were always hustled out the exits as swiftly as possible because clean up of the arena or auditorium had to start as soon as possible after the act was over.

I don't expect many other people to remember seeing this photo. If others had seen it or remembered it, the excitement of it would have been passed on from one to another and it would have (or could still be) considered Exhibit B, right next to the NY harbor boat photo. I was afraid to really 'see' or admit to seeing what I was looking at and, for the past decade or so, I buried it in my memory. I don't yet understand what triggered my remembering of it, but it was yesterday when it flooded back on me and I felt it was important enough to have mentioned it to Dorie (Silversong) this afternoon.

Maybe, if God is willing, someone will come across it and post it. It'll be just our luck that when it is finally found and posted, someone in the know will cop to the whole affair and come clean about all of it--that there were literally dozens of each of these guys all cloned at different times, all taught by computer how to both play their instruments just well enough to mimic the true writer of every one of their songs.

Thank you for letting me tell this story. And be on the lookout for things we've all missed in the old photos !

In an effort to get this out to as many people as possible I also posted this at FFD---here:
http://fabfourdozen.proboards.com/threa ... llTo=10269 ---the other slightly dormant forum that many of us slowed down in using. It's posted on the section entitled 'first 3 Monkees episodes: PID motifs'.
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Re: A hard to find but important photo

Postby Silversong » Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:03 pm

Thanks, bandi. Just so everyone knows, only registered members will be able to view that thread at FFD.

This would be such a great picture to find, if it's ever possible. Surely someone did slip up and accidentally allow such a thing to happen unwittingly, so as to have captured two Pauls into one photo.
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Re: A hard to find but important photo

Postby bandi » Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:40 pm

I spent some time last night looking thru yahoo images. There are a LOT of old photos to look at. I didn't have any luck but I think I was looking in the wrong place. I think I saw it on a forum, maybe the Miss Him one. I'll keep looking, I really want to find it so others can see.
I wonder if the performing Paul had a duplicate for photos and, when the performing P had had enough he hired the photo Paul ? Like in that movie 'Seconds', where the star of the movie does that, then finds out when he moves to his new neighborhood that everyone else who lives there is also in hiding.
Who knows ?
Something else--why did the Rolling Stones say in their Sympathy for the Devil--
"...And I laid traps for troubadours
Who get killed before they reached Bombay"

I guess Mick would never talk cause he's not the original Mick. This is really chaos.
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Re: A hard to find but important photo

Postby Silversong » Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:12 pm

I doubt any particular Paul hired any other particular Paul. That would mean human doubles, which I find quite impossible in this case. I suppose it was all done through replication via Tavistock or whatever.

When you do image searches, I think what comes up are pictures from forums and other websites. At least that's how Google image searches work, but I'm not so sure about Yahoo. Anyway, Google searches are different every time, so maybe with persistence, it will show up eventually? If it's still posted to that forum. Or, as you say, go to the PID MH forum and search. Hopefully, it didn't "time out" or get deleted.

Do you recall what the person who posted that picture said about it? Had they noticed the duplicate Paul in the photo?
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Re: A hard to find but important photo

Postby bandi » Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:15 am

I understand what you're saying. There's no way Paul hired anyone to 'be' him.
What you alone have proven is that from the beginning--way back in the late 50's--there was Dwarf Paul as well as many, many others (you've proven that to me and anyone else who comes here with an open mind). There were tall ones, medium ones, the Dwarf one--which may and I emphasize may have been the first or close to the first one. Same with all of the members--lots of each. Sickening.
What may have been is the one that I saw in the photo in the audience area was 'hanging' with the group and he made himself be seen where he shouldn't have at the time the photo was taken.

If I remember correctly comments were made somewhere (and I don't remember where because I've read so much on this subject) that from the start there was a guy that looked incredibly like Dwarf Paul who would always be in the shadows of the band; he was sort of a hanger on that would travel with the lads when they were on the road. He wasn't a performing Paul, according to what I remember reading, just someone who could deflect some attention from the performing Dwarf Paul. Maybe the guy was a plant from Tav., maybe he was someone who was in some way being groomed so to speak to eventually take Dwarf P's place some day.

Whatever the reason was, he was with the group on that particular day. It's funny because I can't produce the photo right now but I can picture it in my head and the man looked like he could have played the JPM role with minimal tweaks. From what I remember from the photo he looked a little bigger, more muscular (a little more, not a lot more) and a little taller than Paul the dwarf. With his hair slicked down like it was in the photo anyone who saw him would say, like Bill did on Letterman that last time---"is that him, or a just good replica?".

I'll continue looking for the photo until I find it. If I don't find it I'll be embarrassed because I mentioned it then can't produce it, which would make me look like I made the story up from a vivid imagination. Which I didn't.
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Re: A hard to find but important photo

Postby Tink » Fri Jun 26, 2015 6:16 am

bandi wrote: I'll continue looking for the photo until I find it. If I don't find it I'll be embarrassed because I mentioned it then can't produce it, which would make me look like I made the story up from a vivid imagination. Which I didn't.


I believe people's memories. I'm certain you saw what you saw. These days, with historical facts constantly being changed and new versions of things dreamed up out of nowhere and presented as official versions, information scrubbed from the internet and other existing records, paranormal weirdness like the Berenstein/Berenstain Bears thing, etc., I consider people's memories just about the most reliable source of anything. So far TPTB haven't yet been able to get into our heads and change our memories, so those memories stand as facts.

I, for instance, clearly remember the facts given to the public surrounding Keith Moon's untimely death in 1978, and they were completely, radically different from the official version given today. I would not be remembering them wrongly now because I was the biggest Who fan in the world in those days, a total fanatic. They were my entire world. So the story would be seared into my brain for life. We were told then that he was an inpatient in an alcohol rehabilitation hospital. There was some medication kept at his bedside to be self-administered, one tablet before bedtime. (Now, this version of the story did have to be changed later because eventually we all would have all come to realize that in hospital settings medications are always distributed to the patients only by nurses and never, ever self-administered, though at the time none of us questioned this.) Moon took his pill, then later forgot he had taken it, and took another. Because of his fragile condition, the second pill was enough to do him in. The new version -- the only one you will ever read now -- is actually more outlandish than the first version, but it is full of the kind of weird correspondences and symbols TPTB love to plant in their scripts. In this version, Moon and his girlfriend Annette Walter-Lax (who looked so exactly like his ex-wife Kim they are doppelgangers to a high degree) were staying in Harry Nilsson's apartment. The same apartment where Cass Elliot had died a few years prior at the age of 32. Earlier that night they had been guests at Paul McCartney's house (Beatles symbolism has to crop up everywhere) to watch a preview copy of the movie The Buddy Holly Story (Holly being probably the first ritualistically sacrificed rock star). Because of his alcoholism, the new story goes, Moon was prescribed a medication to take on his own at home, but one so volatile even 6 capsules too many would be deadly. The next day Moon was discovered dead in bed, and the autopsy showed he had consumed 32 capsules of the drug. Moon, like Cass Elliot, was 32 years old. The death was not ruled a suicide. That a doctor would prescribe so dangerous a medicine to an addict with no self control whatsoever is itself ludicrous.

But the point is: I remember what I remember. The story the newspapers gave in 1978 was totally different. Both stories are false, but my memory is an accurate record of what was said at the time. I believe you, bandi. Your memory is more accurate than the specters and lies and mind games (now I know what "John Lennon" was actually singing about there) swirling around on the internet and TV. Don't be embarrassed, no matter what the outcome.
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Re: A hard to find but important photo

Postby Silversong » Fri Jun 26, 2015 6:30 am

bandi wrote:I understand what you're saying. There's no way Paul hired anyone to 'be' him.
What you alone have proven is that from the beginning--way back in the late 50's--there was Dwarf Paul as well as many, many others (you've proven that to me and anyone else who comes here with an open mind). There were tall ones, medium ones, the Dwarf one--which may and I emphasize may have been the first or close to the first one. Same with all of the members--lots of each. Sickening.

The small, short Paul who was about 5' 6" didn't appear until Spring of 1963. Before that, they were just around or right at 6 ft. tall. Then again in the 70s, the small, short Paul began showing up again once in a while. I'm not sure why they included him in the mix, and right before Beatlemania at that, but maybe it was a beta test to see if we noticed.

I've said this a couple of times before. In the summer of 1963 when I was reading teen magazines, that small Paul was the one always shown. He was almost as short as Ringo, and George was always the tallest in those pictures. Then in 1964 when they first appeared on Ed Sullivan, I was amazed that Paul was so much taller; even taller than George. I didn't know what to make of it, and certainly couldn't have tried to point it out to anyone, because in those days there was no such thing as a 'conspiracy' or an 'agenda'. I ended up blaming myself for probably not remembering him correctly from the magazines. Denial was a lot easier and more convenient than being locked up for being considered a loon. Now I don't care what people think of me or my theories. I only want the truth, no matter how much I dislike what it turns out to be, and I sure have disliked this a lot. :o
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Re: A hard to find but important photo

Postby bandi » Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:08 am

Thank you Tink & Silversong.

Tink, if you would please, tell me what this is because I have no idea what it's about: 'paranormal weirdness like the Berenstein/Berenstain Bears thing, etc.'. Thank you.

And thanks Tink, for making me feel like you believe what I claim about that photo. I really did see it but since I haven't been able to find it again, I feel self conscious that I even mentioned it. If I do find it imagine how it would fit in with the boat pic, the one on NY Harbor showing multiple Pauls ?!

The multiple stories about how Keith Moon died weren't a surprise. There were a few actors that the same thing happened to me with. I once heard 2 different tv news people say this actor--whose name I can't remember--had died. Then, 2 years later, he's in a movie with Jack Nicholson. High weirdness.
I once saw The Who perform at Madison Square Garden in the early 70's. They played for 17 minutes then took one of their famous 'refreshment' breaks (it was hot and it was summertime, ha ha!). During the half hour break, some animals in the audience got very impatient and really loud and rowdy. A person stood up opposite the stage and from the other side of the auditorium threw a beer bottle at the stage. The bottle arched and spun really high up and in what seemed like slow motion, landed perfectly on Moon's tom tom drum and exploded. That was that, an announcement was made that they weren't coming back. So for 17 minutes I saw The Who do 3 songs, which--and don't hold it against me!--were really badly played (no offense !). I really liked their Quad album and the Tommy movie though.

I must have missed what you had said Silversong, about there being a taller one before the a 5' - 6" Paul, then back to a taller one. I don't recall seeing the short one come back for an appearance, could you direct me to some photos of the shorter ones' temporary reappearance please ? I thought once the short one was gone he never reappeared. In the 70's is when you say he was back for a little while ?I too, remember the short one in the teeny bopper magazines. He was just a little taller than Ringo like you say. I remember it now VERY CLEARLY ! Then, there was a taller one and I never thought twice about this until YOU BROUGHT IT UP RIGHT HERE. Whoa.
Please, if you have time, let me know where I might find the short ones pic. Please and thank you and thanks again Tink.
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Re: A hard to find but important photo

Postby Silversong » Fri Jun 26, 2015 6:10 pm

Bandi, check out this thread for the chronology of the tall and short Pauls up to 1963. It is also posted at CTRN and FFD. I think the first Paul of record in 1959 (does not necessarily mean "original" or REAL JPM) was at least 5'10", maybe more.

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=275

It would take me some time to put together a list of post-1960s short Pauls, but one I remember off the top of my head is in the video Goodnight Tonight from 1979.

Check out this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=68&t=46&p=141#p141

When I get a chance, I'll put together a "short Pauls" thread.
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Re: A hard to find but important photo

Postby Silversong » Fri Jun 26, 2015 6:39 pm

Sorry about this. I see that Early Pauls thread is incomplete as yet in the carry-over from the other forum. I'll keep working on it so we can get to the Spring of 1963 and the first appearance of Short Paul.
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